Curse

Age · Nov 07, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

The reason that heros exist is we on this board and others asked for customization of Henchmen.I don't think they got our true idea is to be able to change the skills on the henchies bar.Heros/Henchies are ok for Questing but for Missions it is better to use real ppl to get along some how.I like playing with real ppl in missions it make it a team effort if you all remember the times before just in Chapter 1 alone.I had a great time no matter how bad the group was it make it more challenging.

It took me 13 times to beat THK with my Ranger but it was fun I knew I would get thru it and I did the Rof 5 times with my 2nd Monk just to cap the skill I wanted but I kept most alive and like someone said at Elona that I was a KickA$$ Monk anyway I would say that most good Monks will still demand things and btw they could still beat hero anytime.I would say the reason you see ppl playing badly is there to over confident and have a big ego and then there are those who play poorly because they are nervous I bet you we can all remember those days on our fisrt mission.Then you have those who have been waiting 30 to 45 min. to get into a group no wonder they are impaient.

Think of it this way would you rather work with robot at work or at school or with real pll?I am more social so I choose ppl I don't want to talk and work with robots.I haven't even done any missions in NF as I am still trying to get my points for Gen. so that I can and it has becomeing a pain.when thinking on it I liked the way Factions was done.I think over all for a online game NF will be a disappointment to some out there.

the_jos · Nov 07, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

To Age (OP):

For missions I try to PUG as much as possible.
Trying to PUG the protectors title is much more challenging than henching the missions. The fun for me is that all players have the same goal, masters on a particular mission. That's more motivating than the hench/heroes who have no goal at all.
I currently use heroes, but I just got all my Tyrian and Elona characters to this Sunspear Sanctuary place and have to quest a lot to get the required Sunspear points to continue. Elona characters are not that much of a problem, but my Tyrian characters are about 2000 points behind them.
So that means finding all res shrines, get blessing and empty the area while having 2-4 quests active to get as much points as possible.
I will PUG some primary quests, but the rest is just heroes and hench, I think.

I think I will also try some Tyrian and Cathan missions with heroes.
I remember that Luxon mission where you have to save the turtles ( Boreas Seabed, if I can remember it right).
I have had some real trouble just getting a group there.
My Mo and Ne had not much problem (everyone wants a monk and SS was also no problem). Ranger (barrage) also no big problem. But specially my Mesmer had real trouble finding a group.
Even my Sin got in easier.
That was, when there were people there. I have seen the mission deserted several times.

I think the problem with PUG's is that you cannot control what you get.
You may get a Mo/E that is full with exhausting fire skills.
Or a Frenzy (I like those bugs near Sanctuary... ) W with additional protection skills.

With Heroes, you have total control over the characters.
I run my healers both with condition removal and the protector with hex removal. I put my ranger hench on full interrupt with broad head.
And recurve bow.
Warrior is full sword/axe with strength (and some tactics for 'watch yourself').

That means that I know my W has no frenzy, my monks won't heal-touch or breeze me and will not run out of energy soon (since they have mostly 5e spells). I know my ranger dazes and interrupts and does not run a trapper build (that is, unless I change the skills).

As mentioned in an other post, I don't play during day time that much.
So I can avoid a lot of kids(?) that (experienced myself) :
- need to eat
- sister wants the computer
- have to go to bed
- go afk on start of mission, only to skip the final movie
- don't have any knowledge of words except 'noob' and some words that appear like ---- in chat.
- run into mobs like crazy, out of monk range and start screaming that the monk should heal them (seen the son of a friend do that, so his mother, who also plays had a good real-life talk after that).
- take useless builds (like the full exhausting fire-ele Mo/E)

I do understand that when you encounter this too often, you will start henching or 'hero-ing'.
When you fail, it's your mistake.

With the 'Control/Shift+click' (don't remember exactly) to tell team your skillbar, the skills problem should be solved mostly. That leaves only experience and respect (also to finish what you start) that can vary.
But that is what makes the PUG so much different from Hench or Guild.
You never know how the other(s) are going to react when they play.

djmook · Nov 07, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

Honestly, I don't know why folks didn't just stick to single player games instead of apparently successfully turning PvE into a mostly single player game. Why come to a multiplayer online game in order to play it essentially single player mode? Perhaps that kind of person would have been better off sticking to offline games like Oblivion, or playing offline Quake/UT with bots, Halflife 2, or NWN in single player offline mode and the like. Stick to using MSN/IRC if you need the chatrooms, do the online gaming world a service and stay away, with your bots

I play GW because of the RPG aspect. There are no current single player RPG's in the same make and model of GW. Oblivion is too close to Morrowind, and while pretty, it doesn't meet my needs.

It took a while for me to find people worth playing with. I play with henchies and heros during the week because I'm on late and most of my guild is in bed. On the weekends, I'll play with anyone in our alliance for any mission or quest, whether to help a noob guildie, a recruit, or to join with vets on harder missions.

Ultimately, people should be able to play the game any way they see fit. I just wish there were an easier way to filter people when entering towns so I could ignore the spammers and actually interact with people who might actually be interesting.

Whiplashr · Nov 07, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Ok people, deep breaths please.

The game hasn't even been out two weeks. Of course alot of people are playing with their heroes. They want to level them up, and the novelty of them is still quite new.

Give it a month and there will be *plenty* of people (ie people who are not good at making good hero builds, etc) who will be LFG. And there will always be true human groups in elite missions and so forth.

Just relax. This is worse than chicken little. Chill pill FTW.

death fuzzy · Nov 08, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

the only missions i havent done with heroes were the consulate docks and ventra cemetary. 4/6 missions successfully completed with heroes.

Miths · Nov 08, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Hi. I think you and the "go play Oblivion" set are forgetting a simple fact: GW is not a multi-player Oblivion. Nor is it an online Quake. It's GW.

If you lack the ability to differentiate games from one another, and bought GW for the sole reason that it's multi-player, then more power to you. I bought it, and keep buying it, because I like it as a specific game. I like the classes. I like the skills. I like the setting.

Can we please stop using the ridiculous argument that GW is simply a mulit-player clone of single-player games? Thanks.

Amen to that. I've never grouped at all in Guild Wars (played through Prophecies, a bit of Factions and not very far in Nightfall yet), and I do play regular single player RPGs as well - currently NWN2, Oblivion and the "ultra light RPG" Marvel Ultimate Alliance.
All great games, but also vastly different in structure and design from Guild Wars - and the other "real" MMORPGs I've played over the years as well, almost always soloing.

I happen to like developing a character in a persistent world (Guild Wars is obviously a bit different in this aspect), I like the game mechanics, the graphics and other aspects (sometimes not enough though, so I quit after a few weeks or months, just like I would any other game) - and I even like the feeling of having other people around me in game world, even if I don't go adventuring with them, much in the same way I enjoy taking a stroll down town without necessarily uttering a word to a single person.

Oh a GW forum · Nov 08, 2006, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by aubee

I successfully completed the THK mission with my ranger and henchies even before NF and heroes. I haven't tried it with heroes but can only imagine that it would be a piece of cake. The one time I did that mish with a PUG I was monking and it also went fairly easy and enjoyable aside from one Leeroy wammo.

Fwiw, I love heroes and find PUGs to be quite frustrating in general. But when PUGs are good, the experience is better than doing it with heroes and/or henchies, imo. You get to experience fun and new stuff, like lucking into a very successful Nahpui Quarter mission with a team of almost all assassins. And even the occasional disaster that turns out to be quite amusing. But my overall preference is to play with guildies and ventrilo.

Yea, it really was. I seem to remember this mission being challenging, but I think most people who PUG there are just terrible at the game. I guess a PUG is kinda like a vicious cycle - If they aren't henching it's because they suck and need to play with real players, who suck equally as them, which just produces a team that's terrible and is why you see people complain it takes 10 tries to beat a mission.

I was surprised to know heros come pre-infused too. o.O

Omega X · Nov 08, 2006, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Guildies > Heroes > Henches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >PuGs.

I rarely, RARELY come across a good pug. 99.99999% of them are pure crap ALWAYS.

Jamison0071 · Nov 08, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Meh, I love my heroes. I am right now playing the eintre game through with my little brother. We both take 3 heroes and are flying through the game and having tons of fun as well. No more mending wammos!

Fluffyx · Nov 08, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Guildies > Heroes > Henches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >PuGs.

I rarely, RARELY come across a good pug. 99.99999% of them are pure crap ALWAYS.

Thats a huge overstatement. Honestly if you're getting pugs that bad you must be either really unlucky or just trying to find the worst players the game has to offer.

Myrkwid · Nov 08, 2006, 04:03 AM // 04:03

It's not the heroes/henchies, that are the problem. Not at all. It's the playerbase. I'm playing gw since the betas and with every day the ingame playerbase degenerates. In early days it was real fun to play with strangers and I've met many nice people. Unfortunately those encountered got more and more scarce. The lack of ingame moderation by gamemasters, the lack of a monthly fee and the pretty low difficulty of the game strengthened crappy play and rude behavior even more.
This forced me to stick with guildies to play the game and if not enough are online, teams get filled up with henchman.
I'd love to play with strangers again, but currently it is a far inferior playing experience.

Instead of complaining about not finding a PuG, what about searching for a guild to play with? The game is called "Guild Wars" and not "PuG Wars" after all. Maybe enforcing a minimum size for guilds and requiring them to play the game might be a way to be considered to patch the broken ingame community.

bungusmaximus · Nov 08, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Hehehe, this goes out to all the people who think all PUG's suck monkey balls. I finished the game yesterday thanks to a very good team. We pwned shiro and mr lich and we totally owned abbadon on top of that. People actually had a plan and were working together. I love that function that allows ppl to show their skillbar with ctrl-click. The harder the stuff gets, the more likely ppl are to coöperate IMO, no-one wants to get mauled after 30mins of trouble over and over again. More extremely hard content please

Lord Dobo · Nov 08, 2006, 10:37 AM // 10:37

I agree with Mirkwid on the player base. When I started (about a month after release) I henched all the way through to THK and after getting my butt kicked decided I would try PuGs. (Btw, THK was much harder back then. Mirkwid, you remember the nerf? I went back to help guildies later and was shocked to find it was made easier. After which I grabbed all my other toons and henched each of them through it.) The PuGs back then were great! I met so many cool people I started my own Guild. It grew in size and only came apart later as people either moved back to MMO's they used to play (citing lack of character customization) or moved on to themed guilds (farming only, pvp only, etc.) As time went on, more and more people just turned out to be arrogant, rude, and skilless. So I henched the rest of my toons through and interacted with a small core of friends that I kept in contact with. Now my list of friends is never on, and my incentive to sift through piles of rude people is very small. Instead, my newly created guild is more able to just pick up some heros and enjoy a few levels whe we are not just doing our own thing. I personally thing the heros are great this way. My freinds and I can still travel with each other, but have complete freedom to do it on our own terms, without the need to bring arrogant punks into the same missions as ourselves. I do wish I could stop and search out new friends, but with working 40 hours a week and going to college full time as well, I just don't have the time to waste on maybes. Later, yes, but now, thank god for heroes.

To bring up something that has not been mentioned yet... Prophesies set up the game, Factions was themed for PvP, and Nightfall is themed for PvE. When Factions came out, these same boards were full of people proclaiming the end of guild wars, and wow, again, not even a month into the game and people are predicting the end of guild wars over the lack of PuGs during the experimental part of the game. Give it some time. Not only will people return to PuGs for the interaction, but prices will settle on mods and greens, inscriptions will find a baseline, and we'll all be speculating on chapter 4.

Heh, to give myself an uncharacteristic pat on the back, I actually suggested, on these very forums somewhere, that I wanted to play in an arabic themed land with a spear wielding soildier class that worked well in a group and that I wanted to see a whirling dervish as well. Sure, they didn't take up my big fat eunuch idea, but we can't always get what we want, eh? ;P I still want to see a more barbaric themed area, maybe mop up the charr, and how's about some vikings and rune casters? But nah, I think they gave themselves a thread to work with, given that guy that was left marooned on the Jade Sea that obviously came from a Victorian England, world exploring, style land. Maybe they'll work in sailors and adventurers, but I'm hoping for inquisitors and artifacers.

Zolderick · Nov 08, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

It really depends.....you could always see a players experience level in the game by their title. I still like heroes.

Lag Hell · Nov 08, 2006, 10:53 AM // 10:53

well ive only read thru the 1st page... apparently MMO dosnt mean anything anymore... every1s become so... anti-social... i like playing with other players, i always try to pug at every place i can, i dont mind if ppl mess up, it happens. the pugs i think suck r the 1s with defective/offensive ppl who ruin the entire grps fun...

Timestop · Nov 08, 2006, 11:18 AM // 11:18

I played Nightfall trough with my fire ele, using henchies & heroes. That was very rewarding! That is... first time in my Guild Wars history. With other chars, I must remain friendly free and have real people helping with the missions. Now I'm stuck, but hopely not forever

And yes I'm anti-social in real life also, not very proud of it, but my wife and my son are happy.

geekling · Nov 08, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffyx

Thats a huge overstatement. Honestly if you're getting pugs that bad you must be either really unlucky or just trying to find the worst players the game has to offer.

Well you know, there's a third option...

Take your basic average PUG, what is it that 90% of the time turns it into a really bad PUG?

Yeah, that one guy, the socially inept looser that can't play with other people.

For those guys all PUGs are bad ones.

Sedgehammer · Nov 08, 2006, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

The plural for Heroes is Heroes, not Hero's...

I saw people make that mispelling in-game and I wanted to pull all of my hair out.

And I witnessed my boyfriend also complete every mission with masters with heroes. Strangely, he tried teaming up with a Dervish player and his/her heroes, and it was a fail. Now he only uses heroes and henchmen.

bj91x · Nov 08, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

If you like to PUG, then go ahead and PUG. It's your right. But don't go around telling people who like to use heroes/henchies to stop using them. Heroes or not, these are the people who already avoided PUG since Prophecies, anyways. Personally, if I was forced to play with PUG throughout the entire game, I wouldn't be playing GW. Heck, if half the missions in GW were like Vizunah or Unwaking where I had no control over fully henching the mission, I wouldn't be playing GW.

I remember once trying to help an ally get through Unwaking. We tried so hard to get a full hench group from the other side. For 4 games straight, we kept getting PUG people on the other side. It was frustrating. We tried for nearly an hour becase we kept getting PUG and repeatedly failed Unwaking. It wasn't until we finally got a full hench group that we were relieved so that we can actually pass the mission (which we easily did).

I love playing games with people, but playing with PUG is just pure frustration majority of the time. Heroes and henchies allow me to play the game and enjoy the game, while making it even more fun to play with my guildies and allies.

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 08, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

PUGing should be an option but never a forced choice. I do both and to be perfectly honest i havnt met a mission yet i couldnt hench, there reliable and do as told and never argue for no reason and dont screw up a mission for u but they are also sometimes stupid and lacking in good builds. PUGS are fun, more effecient and generally superior BUT thats only when u get a good group which im sad to say is very rare.